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Aug 13

#LCCholesterolChallenge Six Month Update

IMPORTANT UPDATE: The total budget has been increased at the one year anniversary to $3,000 at $1,000 per study!

Today is the six monthaversary of my #LCCholesterolChallenge. Half a year ago I posted the following graphic:

https://twitter.com/DaveKeto/status/963437664199352322

And to date, no one has provided a non-drug, non-gene study showing people with high HDL + low triglycerides + high LDL exhibiting high rates of cardiovascular disease.

So today I’m going to step it up… big time!

The Un-Terms

I wanted to hold a contest for people to meet this challenge and set specific targets. After chatting with friend of mine who is a lawyer, he pointed out that there’s a lot of legalese once you hold a “contest” (or even use the word) that can get a be very complex to comply with. So he suggests I announce this as a “fun challenge” that “may” motivate me to reward participants.

So let me state it like this: I’m very, very interested in studies that meet the criteria I outline below. I have a budget of $1,000 $3,000 that I’ll be drawing on to give (via PayPal) as I see fit for people who submit links to such studies in the comments section of this blog post. Obviously, first-to-post on each specific study matters a lot to me. I’m thinking around $300 $1,000 for a study that hits that criteria sounds pretty exciting, but I’m not officially saying one way or the other.

You know what also sounds neat? Studies that show the opposite (like the ones mentioned below). So if people find studies that meet the below criteria with the exception of having LOW CVD or CHD, I’m thinking of possibly something around $100 would be exciting.

Once I’m out of that budget, I probably won’t be giving away any more.

But for legal purposes, everything I say above is all arbitrarily decided and in no way constitutes an explicit promise or commitment. Okay, lawyers?

The Criteria I’m Looking For

To set up specific targets, I’m going to use one of the studies that showcases the opposite result (high LDL, yet with low heart disease) — the Framingham Offspring study.

And as per the challenge, I want to get a sample of people who aren’t selected in or out for genetics or drugs that impact their lipid system.

So here’s the criteria, pure and simple — all of which must be met for a given group in the submitted study:

  1. HDL Cholesterol of 50 mg/dL or above (≥ 1.29 mmol/L)
  2. Triglycerides of 100 mg/dL or below (≤ 1.13 mmol/L)
  3. LDL Cholesterol of 130 mg/dL or above (≥ 3.36 mmol/L)
  4. Either high Coronary Heart Disease (CHD) or high Cardiovascular Disease (CVD) (see the section below)
  5. By “normal” and “non-treated“, I mean:
    • No stratifying by specific genetics
    • No stratifying by drugs (no drug studies)
    • No stratifying by a particular illness in advance of the study. (duh!)
    • In other words, just a generally broad group of people like Framingham Offspring or the Jeppesen study
  6. And here’s some fine print that should be obvious, but just in case…
    • The study needs to be published in a reputable journal
    • It has to be dated before this article was posted, of course
    • The study needs to have at least 400 participants that are stratified by this criteria. (The two studies above have over 500)
    • I’d prefer no unusual “modeling” or “adjustments” to alter the data too far from it’s original set. This one goes by the honor system — if you have such a study and it is clearly warranted, I can give it a pass.

What is Considered High Rates of CVD or CHD?

The most recent statistics I was able to find on Cardiovascular Disease (CVD) comes from National Center for Health Statistics and National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute. Their data is reflected in this article from Harvard Health Publishing, Heart Disease: A Guide to Preventing and Treating Coronary Artery Disease.

For Coronary Heart Disease (CHD), we can go with the most recent data I was able to find from the American Heart Association.

In other words, I’m very interested in studies that meet the criteria from the above section and exceed the rates of either CVD or CHD of this section.

Thus, we’re not even talking “high” rates of these diseases — just “above average”.

Final Thoughts

Clearly I’m extremely interested in gathering more evidence — for or against — this challenge.

I could write about 10 pages of thoughts on why I consider it beyond astonishing that this “triad” hasn’t gotten more focus, but I’ll save that for another post.

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Valentin PankovDaveBrittany SheaMauri FosterSiobhan Huggins Recent comment authors

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Susan Jones
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Susan Jones

Dave, If someone did do a study on this I would fit the protocol, If someone wants to start one I volunteer to participate!

Anne
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Anne

I volunteer too because my labs fit your parameters as well!

Brian Scott Edwards MD
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Brian Scott Edwards MD
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My answer at meandgin.blogspot.com/2018/09/new-answer-to-dave-feldmans-lipid.html

Brian Scott Edwards MD
Guest

My case
Fasting lipid panel:
total cholesterol: 174 (last year 178; “desirable”40);
LDL: 101 (last year 100; “optimal”<100, “desirable”/“near optimal”<130);
total cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.9 (last year 3.2);
Triglycerides: 61 (last year 71; <150).

Brian Scott Edwards MD
Guest

Fasting lipid panel:
total cholesterol: 174 (last year 178; “desirable”40);
LDL: 101 (last year 100; “optimal”<100, “desirable”/“near optimal”<130);
total cholesterol/HDL ratio 2.9 (last year 3.2);
Triglycerides: 61 (last year 71; <150).

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[…] the #LDLBounty continues, and the question of whether high LDL in isolation raises the risk of cardiovascular […]

Ricks
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Ricks

My Sept ’18 documented blood work on LCHF fits: HDL 80, Trig 60, LDL 155 (and TC 247). female, 71yo. Hurry up, my doctor prescribes statins! 🙂

Justin Ma
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Justin Ma

Today is October 22nd, 2018. Has anyone provided a study to address your #LCCholesterolChallenge?

Gerardo
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Gerardo

As someone with a history of High Blood Pressure since my teen years, linked with unexplained High Cortisol tested in a thousand ways, all markers stated I was in perfect health, except for the unexplained HBP and Cortisol. My HDL and LDL were “excellent”, having HDL in the upper limits and LDL in the lower parameters, TG very low, everything in check. I had a predominantely carbs loaded diet (western like), bread and pastas made for 80% of my caloric intake and was in acceptable BMI, though not in the greatest shape.
Tried thousands of things, “stress” was my diagnosed problem, no way of avoiding my base anxiety. A change in diet, where carbs were focused (didn’t consume much salt and barely any sugar to begin with, and dropped pretty much all salt from my teen years trying to comply with medical advise)., brought finally a change in something that could NOT be solved. My BP lowered from a decade long 145/90 – 160/95 to a more steady 110/70. Anxiety is more manageable without focusing it at all.
What changed? Flour, refined carbohydrates and dairy -out of the diet-. Replaced with complex carbs, some rice and lots of fatty meat, including beef tallow. Tons of saturated fats, considered “unhealthy” are becoming the main source of my diet. Cholesterol levels did rise, medicaly speaking I would be considered less healthy, but I stand healthier today.
This woke my curiosity and brought me to you and other keto/carnivore/low carb researchers. I’ve been looking for evidence to support typical medical advice against saturated fats and I still DON’T UNDERSTAND where this cholesterol paranoia came from.

Gerardo
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Gerardo

In terms of studies, even from the 90s they found correlation between CAD and carb heavy diets. LDL levels were not matched with CAD, but small particles associated with high carb consumption did prevail in CAD over control.
In terms of total LDL-C, no correlation was found to disease, while those with elevated small particles, low HDL and/or high TG -influenced by HCLF- showed higher CAD.
It’s been long suspected, even by looking at old studies, that total Cholesterol has little or no significance in CHD on its own, while perhaps having protective virtues against disease.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/01.ATV.12.2.187

Against total LDL I’m still to find something remotely conclusive. Other than pharma and doctors, there’s no reasoning behind the well known “Cholesterol is bad for you”. Some even claim dietary cholesterol is to be avoided to this day, based in god knows what.

Gerardo
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Gerardo
Gerardo
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Gerardo

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20117361

Based on EPIC study, pretty much every other lipid indicator, ratios and even particle sizes are a lot more relevant to CHD prediction than LDL-C by itself.
I will try to find information directly related to LDL, as flawed as it comes, just to try and guess what doctors and statin pushers are basing their recommendations on from a simple TC test, which is the information most doctors use.

Gerardo
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Gerardo

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11176761

Right to the point: high LDL didn’t impact heart disease incidence in a significant way when TG levels were low and HDL high.

Lynn RAY
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Lynn RAY

Here are my numbers..I follow keto loosely meaning u cheat too much but I have had my triglycerides in the 800s before so this I’d definitely an improvement..TC 252, LDLC 190,HdLc 55,triglycerides 135,nonhdlc197,apob149,sdldc 55,%sdlc 29, vldlc7,lpa<15, apoaA-1 161. Am I about to have a heart attack lol I'm 53 yo 54 this Sunday.

Mauri Foster
Guest
Mauri Foster

Hi Dave! Thank you for your videos and research, I truly appreciate it. I am a 49 year old female who has been fairly strict keto since July 2018. My labs are as follows:
Total cholesterol 227
LDL 115
HDL 105
TG 39
I have one of the “heart attack gene(s)”that I am working to suppress and have refused to take a statin. I am predisposed to CAD both personally and materially and am willing to share labs with you if requested. I have many done every three months.

Mauri Foster
Guest
Mauri Foster

Should be paternally and materially phone changed wording 🙁

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

Sure! Any information you have would be interesting to look at. Funnily enough, your LDL is actually lower than I’m user to seeing – so I’m curious to see the over all trend.
You should be able to attach the files to the comment (there should be a little “attach file” option), just make sure that there’s no personal information in the file!

Mauri Foster
Guest
Mauri Foster

I will upload my labs Friday for you to see the trend. I go in next month for my next set as well.

Brittany Shea
Guest
Brittany Shea

Hi dave, I just found a video of yours on YouTube and I’m very interested in your study. Ive had high HDL cholesterol with low LDL for years and no doctors have been able to give me knowledge on why this is. Im wondering if I could send you some of the panels I have had done over the past 6 years and perhaps contribute to your study or at least have any sort of explanation as to what it means or why this is.

Valentin Pankov
Guest
Valentin Pankov

Dave,
If I can be of help please contact me (I am in Belgium).
My recent fasting lab results:
* total cholesterol: 233
* LDL: 166
* HDL: 50
* Triglycerides: 85
Heart QRS anomaly: slow progression of the R-wave from v1 to v3
I do intermittent fasting.

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[…] has posted a contest about finding a study that shows increased CVD risk when one has high HDL-C (above 50 mg/dL) , low […]