Infographic of Prediction Experiment

For more details on this graphic and the story behind it, see the post following.

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Diego Espinosa
3 years ago

Hi David,
Remarkable, but in many ways not surprising. We need lots more biohacking experiments like yours — millions, actually! My start-up, Healthcoin, is seeking to document them on a blockchain. The idea is we can use that “certified proof” of prevention to channel recognition and rewards to those that are proving prevention right. We want to create a vast, “Living Chain” of proof, one that scales across the globe and over lifetimes, and can be accessed by medical researchers.

If interested, I’d like to include you in an early pilot of the technology. Please email me for more details.

Thanks,
Diego

Annlee
Annlee
3 years ago

Reminds me of Dr. Atkins – when weight loss stalled, he’d advise a “fat fast.” Jackie Eberstein has commented on it.

Pam Forrester
Pam Forrester
3 years ago

Hi Dave,
I just found your site. I am a hyper responder. I have been LCHF for 6 years. I hate to go to the doctor who wants to put me on a statin, which I will not do. But why does this happen? Can you point me to the link where I am sure you explained it. Also loved loved loved the illustrated Simple Guide to Cholesterol. Is part III up yet?

Patrick Fannin
Patrick Fannin
3 years ago

Dave, I am 48 and have been on a ketogenic diet for about 5 years. I recently had a coronary CT scan that my doctor wanted me to do because of high cholesterol and because of my diet. My calcium score was in the 70th worst percentile for for calcium deposits. I am wanting to consult with someone in the keto community who can help me understand why I have high levels of calcium deposits and what to do about it. I don’t want to go back to my pre-keto life but this test result has scared me. Thanks for any guidance or referral.

zeeshan
zeeshan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Hi Dave,

I am a software developer. I have been following your site recently to get more understanding about cholestrol. My Cac score came out to be 120 at age 35. A shock for me. Can you tell me what i can do to not let it go high that is not let it progress? You said in the post above about some doctor’s recommendation? can u please provide some my email is zeeshanjhirani@gmail.com. You know of any particular doctors in texas who have more info to figure out how i got here that i can do fix my issues. I did notice that u are signed up on low carb cruise in May in Galveston. Will u be going in Sep cruise too?

zeeshan
zeeshan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I did put my listing up on ketogenicforms.com maybe u can give me some feedback

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/rosuvastatin-caused-my-hdl-to-drop-despite-being-on-keto-and-intermittent-fasting/34907

GCGeo
GCGeo
3 years ago
Reply to  Patrick Fannin

What is your LDLp? My personal experience has been that high LDLp drives the process that eventually shows up as CAC score > 0. Keep in mind that CAC shows up late in the game so even with a score of zero you could still be subject to a long term ongoing disease process that may not manifest for yet many years. Check out Davis’ book “Track Your Plaque.” It was written some years ago but still has a wealth of useful information. At the time the book was written, Davis counseled low saturated fat along with his no wheat and low carb recommendations. I wonder what his take on saturated fat is today. Good luck. Keep us posted on your situation.

Dwight
Dwight
3 years ago

Hello Dave

Your data is interesting though scary. Your calories per day (high days) are too high. Your cholesterol numbers freak me out.

You appear to be a “youngish” man meaning that because your coronary arteries start with a wide diameter they are closing. You can’t tell because of starting diameter. I’m betting the smaller coronary arteries are closing. Penis and peripheral arteries.

If you continue to be low carb obsessed My suggestion is to Check degree of closure of coronary arteries by non invasive means like PET and so on. You might be one of the lucky folk who are not fat sensitive. Robert Atkins said about 1/3 of people (I think) have to be careful about fat intake.

A major problem with large fat intake i.e. High calories from fat is that you are not getting the phytonutrients necessary. Towards the end of Atkins life he was asked what he would do differently if any. He said he’d eat a lot more greens. Fat has a very low nutrient density.

With respect you seem to be missing the forest for the trees.

Eric Rodgers
Eric Rodgers
3 years ago

Dwight

Interesting comments do you have any links to Atkins comments where he said he’d eat a lot more greens?

Thanks

Eric

Miguel
Miguel
3 years ago

Hello Dave,

What you are doing is amazing! Thank you for your work! I am interested in your food log for the higher calorie days. I see your macros percentages but what foods did you intake to achieve such a higher saturated fat and protein? I would like to follow your experiment myself and I currently use Cronometer to track my foods. Thanks!

Miguel
Miguel
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Thanks! And, avoid coconut and MCT oil but what about Brain Octane Oil, coconut milk or cream? Would these effect lipid results?

Miguel
Miguel
3 years ago
Reply to  Miguel

And is Extra Virgin Olive Oil ok?

Jorge Estevao
Jorge Estevao
3 years ago

Monosaturate fats and fish oil are known to increase HDL and decrease LDL. Have you tried to increase these instate of satured fat on your diet and watch the results?

Gary
Gary
3 years ago

just got my first panel back after starting Keto in July. went from 305 to 404, and all my other indicators, except tri’s and HDL are red flagged to the extreme. not quite sure where i am going to go next.

fat is up/carbs down, fiber down from about 150/day to 20-25/day, sat fat up but not markedly.

now it’s all a process of elimination but the testing cycle is a pain, I don’t have a lab I can pound blood into easily.

Craig
Admin
3 years ago
Reply to  Gary

Gary,

It sounds like you are comparing a pre-keto lab to a 2-months into keto lab. What all did you have tested? Could you post the TC/HDL/TG/LDL for those two tests? (We should have an article on recommendations for what labs to get, soon)

My LDL-C and TC are also “flagged to the extreme”, but after doing a bunch of research and some additional testing, I’m not too worried. If TG dropped and HDL went up, those are very positive developments.

Craig

Diane
Diane
3 years ago

Has anyone who is not routinely low-carb tried your experiment? I’m on more of a high protein, low fat body-builder type diet and wonder if this would still work for me. I just want my doctor off my back. I refuse to take statins.

Diane
Diane
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I have not tried your hack but my last test my numbers were:

TRIG: 78
Cholesterol: 312
HDL: 77
NON HDL CHOL. (LDL + VDL): 235
LDLCALC: 219
VLDL Cholesterol CAL: 16
CHOLHDL: 4.1

cibele
cibele
3 years ago

Hi Dave, I just found out about you and your blog online and I’m already amazed.
i did the keto diet for 3 months and at the end I have high cholesterol. I also have polycystic ovary syndrome and my doctor asked me to stop this high fat diet.
Im on a regular diet, still low carb, but I definitely loved the keto diet…I was feeling amazing every single day, with a lot energy any time of the day.
I started to google today about it since I really would like to go back to the keto diet at least during the week (5 days a week).
what do you thing about this approach?
maybe I should stay way from Saturated fat for a month and test my cholesterol again?
you comments will be very important for me. thank you so much for sharing all this information.
Thank you, cibele
[DAVE NOTE: I removed your email as this site is crawled by spambots quite a bit!]

Sofia
Sofia
3 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I am interested in that too as I am Leto 8 months but pcos and hipo..thank you

amy
amy
3 years ago

Question:

Please forgive me if the answer is here on the site somewhere–I’ve crawled around and can’t find it.

For the cholesterol drop protocol, during the high calorie part, does the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat seem to make a difference? Or is that something no one has looked at?

thanks!

– Amy

Traci
Traci
2 years ago

From Healthcoin “Our mission is to allow employers, insurers and governments across the globe to incentivize and manage their population’s lifestyle change.”

Don’t we need less management from the government, our employers and insurers?

Daniel Bullen
Daniel Bullen
2 years ago

Dave – Please help!!!

I just want to make sure I understand this. I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 3 months – with no cheats. I recently got my lipid panel and my Dr. and Fiance were extremely worried about my LDL and total cholesterol levels… (Total: 360 and LDL: 303). My Dr. asked me to eat less red meat and come back again in a month. He said I didn’t need the NMR Lipid profile ( I requested).

If I consume high fat/cals for 3 days leading up to the next test, I should notice a drop in LDL? I just don’t want them on my case about my LCHF diet, as it has been the best thing I’ve ever been on.

Please let me know…

Thanks,
Daniel

Daniel Bullen
Daniel Bullen
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave thanks for your prompt response… My doctor kind of freaked out, asked me to cut back on red meat ( I was eating 80/20 grass-fed beef daily) and wants me to come back in a month. I posted my numbers below and will check out that link you posted to the write up.

Here were my results:

Total: 360

Triglyceride: 39

HDL: 49

LDL: 303

Daniel Bullen
Daniel Bullen
2 years ago

Dave,

Wow – thank you for sharing that guide with the comic. It is extremely helpful in helping me understand what all of this means. As far as the HDL, I will take a closer look at my saturated fat intake and see where else I can add some in to my macros. I am so happy I stumbled upon this blog and I am super appreciative of you taking time out of your day to help me understand all of this.

Thank you!

Daniel

Kristof
Kristof
2 years ago

Hello, interesting here! I just got my results from my blood analysis and was worried. I’m on the ketogenic diet for two months together with IF and am feeling great. But my blood analysis shows a high total cholesterol: 280 mg/dL and high LDL 194 mg/dL. Triglycerides are low: 58 mg/dL and HDL is ok (74 mg/dL), non-HDL-cholesterol is 206 mg/dL (too high!). So my doctor was very worried…
I’m lean, train 3 to 4 times with weights and with a bike, body fat (i guess) is about 14 %.
There’s one more thing i don’t understand: I read that when you are on ketosis, your glucoselevel is between 50-80, mine is 102, so i’m not on ketosis? (I did not eat for the blood analysis).
Many thx and love this blog!
Kristof

Kristof
Kristof
2 years ago
Reply to  Kristof

Edit: bough myself a glucometer and started testing my glucose. My first reading was 74 mg/dl, with is much lower than the lab test (102).

Maryann D
Maryann D
2 years ago

I came to your site from Megan in the IDM program. I was/am doing low carb, high fat (but was still having sugar and carbs infrequently) and at my six month mark had the following numbers:

Total Cholesterol 288
Triglycerides 156 (in the past they have been in the 200s)
HDL 63
LDL 194
CRP 0.64

I won’t take statins which my doctor has been pushing on me for several years and just did my calcium scan, awaiting results. I don’t understand the fat grams-461 and saturated fat grams-274 listed in your protocol. Are the saturated fats part of the total fat gram or separate. I really want to try this for my next blood draw. Also, not sure I am APOE 4, but think I am 4/4 because of intrepreting my results through Prometheus. Thanks.

Adriana
Adriana
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

So the high calorie partmis not really a part of the protocol? Just high fat?

Maryann D
Maryann D
2 years ago

Gosh, Dave, thank you for getting right back to me. My Cardiac CT scan is 200. I am really excited to have this baseline and would like to do the higher slice test that you did in six months, after I go to 0. Can you tell me the facility you used. My current test was a 64 slice multi-detector. Thank you for your work. Whew – it such a relief to know that “I’ve Got This” after my doctor is trying to scare the hell out of me. Best!

Anita
Anita
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dear Dave, Please help me!
I would like to understand this. I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 1,5 years. (Usually under 20 grams carbs, but sometimes with wine more than 50 grams carb)
I recently got my lipid panel and my Dr. were extremely worried about my lipid panel and would like to give medicine.

I posted my numbers below:
Here were my results:
Total: 377
Triglyceride: 34
HDL: 115
LDL: 226

I have 2 children, I am 39 woman. I love exercises and I was always underweightI feel fantastic, but I am worried about my results. If I consume high fat/cals for 3 days leading up to the next test, I should notice a drop in Total?
I love my diet! Please let me know…
Thanks,
Anita

Anita
Anita
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Dear Dave! Thank you very much for your prompt response! I worried really much for my results. My doctor asked me to cut back or eliminate on red meat, creams, chicken, duck skins, eggs. I am gluten sensivite and have fructose malabsorption, so my diet not too easy and I would not like to change or eliminate these foods. I read your article you linked, so I try to understand. I am 175 cm tall and 49-50 kg with very low body fat. I do sports 60-90 minutes every day, so it means I am a Lean Mass Hyper-Responder and my result are okay. Should I change or eliminate anything in my diet?
Thank you very much for you advice in advance!
Anita

Nat
Nat
2 years ago

Hi David I am concerned about my ldl-p 3074, ldl-c 216, hdl-c 42, TC 285, HDL-p 27.6, small ldlp 1961, oxldl 70, CRP 0.42. I had a CAC in 2016 of zero. I am just starting a protocol for my gut as I have an overgrowth going on which I am hoping will lower all these no plus I think I am insulin resistant . I have also not be doing excercising since Nov trying to get back on that bandwagon. I think I eat pretty well done meat, veg, fruit, low carb some fat try to stay away from grains.
I am the same with every one don’t want to go on meds as I am 54 year old woman and is post menopause ( I think that is causing issues also) I have done the DUTCH test and 23 and me . I also I seeing a functional practioner and treating a leaky gut which I think is fueling my horrific results.
Your thoughts?

Dan
Dan
2 years ago

Hi Dave,
Been low carb/keto for long time. Lipids NOV 2016:total 261,trig 82,HDL 62, LDL 182. Doctor wants me on statins. My question is if I do the high fat diet 3 days before my lab work next week, how will it effect my other blood tests?
Been following you for a long time.
Dan

Dan
Dan
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I’ll share the results. I’ll try to eat 50000 calories for 3 days too!

Michael Woodard
Michael Woodard
2 years ago

Great information. I did keto a while and all cholesterol shot up (37 yo and was suggested statins). I think it was because of hypothyroidism. I’ve recently tried zero carb/carnivore. If you feel adventurous I’d love to know what your numbers might be eating meat drinking water. I’ve been zc for about 2 weeks and have a yearly blood test coming up. Im planning on lots of fat for a few days and hope the numbers are better than with keto.

jacque
jacque
2 years ago

Hi David,
I found your site via Dr. Eades’ blog and have read a lot of what’s on it. I don’t quite understand everything, but I think I get the main points.

I’m pre-D and have been LCHF for about 8 years. (I can’t figure out the macros to do keto.) I’m 72, no longer work out, but I am lean, underweight actually. And I’m 3/3 for APOE. I’d been doing IF (simply skipping breakfast) every day for 2 weeks or so before my lab test last month, so I expected my numbers to be terrific. They’ve been trending upward for the past few years as I’ve been eating more fat, but this time they really jumped. My doc does the NMR.

What I think equates to your HDL-C is missing. It seems to no longer be included in my labs so I’ve listed my HDL-P.

Can you make sense of my numbers? I’m afraid to try your experiment before my next lab test but I want to lower my ldl and TG and up my hdl. Seven years ago I had a similar report, a total of 476 cholesterol. 314 LDL calc, and 146 HDL. So I eliminated whipping cream, cream cheese, chicken skin, animal fat, butter, coconut oil … and cut back to no more than an egg a day. That reduced my cholesterol nearly 200 points. So I’m confused as to what I should be doing. My doc knows I won’t take statins. Thanks.

Cholesterol 356
LDL-P 1826
TG 66–before I started LCHF, TG was usually in the low 40s
Direct LDL 189
HDL-P (total) 47.9

jacque
jacque
2 years ago
Reply to  Dave

Thanks for such a quick response. I’m buoyed that you think my numbers look pretty good, but I’m now even more confused. I’ve reviewed all my labs since Feb 2011 to try and find patterns and I can’t really find any–although I do know that cholesterol readings can change from day to day depending on what’s been eaten. Still, I think I’ll stick with reducing my fats and see what happens at my lab draw in August.

Since perhaps 2007 I’d been recording everything I ate. Then I moved to a much smaller place last year and threw out all those notebooks–boy, was that dumb. So, because I always want to know the “why” behind the “what,” I started recording again this morning. And I’ve emailed my doc to include HDL in my next test.

Johnnie D Jackow Sr
2 years ago

Hi Dave, I figured I would chime in on this as your test results are not surprising. The body will produce more cholesterol whenever you take in less calories from fat/cholesterol. As you know the body makes up to 75% each day. Eat less food and your body will make up for it. Eat more food and your body will make less of it. Your body will try it’s best to maintain homeostasis based on demands. Repair, rebuild, etc..

If your body overcompensates whenever you take in less calories that tells me you have a sluggish liver, organs, cells, etc.. I normally put my clients on liver flushes and clean out their colons and add in a few other supplements for 14 days. Then do your experiment again and you will see your body won’t overcompensate on the cholesterol when eating low calories. I’ve done this experiment about two decades ago and learned the liver is the culprit in most cases considering your bowels are moving after every meal.

Hector L
2 years ago

“Hi Dave, I figured I would chime in on this as your test results are not surprising. The body will produce more cholesterol whenever you take in less calories from fat/cholesterol. As you know the body makes up to 75% each day. Eat less food and your body will make up for it. Eat more food and your body will make less of it. Your body will try it’s best to maintain homeostasis based on demands. Repair, rebuild, etc..”

Yup, that’s common knowledge stuff and there’s nothing interesting about the cholesterol drop. Can Dave comment on this?

Pablo
Pablo
2 years ago

Hi David, how much does affect physical activity to the protocol?, I will do the 3 days protocol in the next days but I dont know if i should train or I need just to rest? Also, how long do I have to be on LCHF or Keto to do the protocol?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Pablo

In general it’s recommended not to do intensive exercise during the protocol – e.g. a leisurely stroll is fine, but running or weight lifting is probably not a great idea. I’ve seen a few cases where they didn’t see a drop during the protocol, and when they re-did it sans exercise they got the expected drop.

As for the second question, generally about 6 months. And as an added note, we generally recommend getting a baseline lab as well to compare the results of the protocol as well, to see what your normal is before trying it.

Pablo
Pablo
2 years ago

Thanks Siobhan, I did weightlifting yesterday and have only been with LCHF for 2 months after a period of one month of bad eating habits so I will wait to do it.
Where do I send the results once I have them?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Pablo
Frank
Frank
2 years ago

Hi Dave,
I am interested in trying this protocol. Any chance you can share exactly what you ate for the three days prior to blood testing to equate 5000 plus calories? I am having a difficult time figuring that out and still keepin in the right macronutrient profile.

David B
David B
2 years ago

Found this blog and info. Looking for some feedback on where to go from here and worried about my cholestorol.

38 year old male Type 1 insulin dependent Diabetic since 8 years old. A1C from 7-8 my entire adult life. Started Dr Bernstein/Keto last November. Went from 235lbs to 185 lbs since then. Weight stalled a while back and have been doing IF 22/2 or 20/4 successfully. A1C is now steady at 5.3. However my cholestorol numbers are looking bad especially this NMR.

My trigs were great back in July but I started adding heavy cream with my coffee instead of hemp milk in the morning and I started doing consistent 5 days IF mon-fri and now my trigs are high on my NMR. I am going to ditch the heavy cream but mostly I eat green leafy and cruciferous veggies and meat along with cheeses and eggs, figh, lots of nuts and seeds, etc.

SEPT 2018 PRE KETO (SAD DIET)
CHOL 244, Calculated LDL 155, HDL 44, TRIGS 223, Calculated non-HDL 200

JULY 2018 9 MONTHS KETO
CHOL 256, Calculated LDL 193, HDL 42, TRIGS 105, Calculated non-HDL 214, Chol/HDL 6.1

SEPT 2018 NMR
LDL Particle Number 2,379
LDL Cholesterol 172
HDL Cholesterol 33
Triglycerides 227
Total Cholesterol 250
Total HDL Particles 21.5
Small LDL-P 1,055
Large VLDL-P 4.5
Large HDL-P 2.7
VLDL Size 50.1
LDL Size 21.1
HDL Size 8.6
LP/IR Score 74

Any suggestions or thoughts I am lost on what to do or adjust and my doctor is telling me I should go vegan!!! My goes is to stay LC for my diabetes and maintaining A1C!

Koffee Kommando
Koffee Kommando
1 year ago
Reply to  David B

Drop all nuts and seeds just for kicks and see what happens:
https://freetheanimal.com/2016/05/what-been-truth.html

Jeremy
Jeremy
2 years ago

Hello to Dave and the community here. I plan to try the 3-day high cal cholesterol drop protocol. I have a question though that I haven’t seen brought up in the comments. I generally fast around 16 hours a day give or take – if I consume all of the higher calories during a defined eating window, is that sufficient, or would you recommend that I put intermittent fasting on hold while I do this? Thanks!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeremy

If you can comfortably do that, intermittent fasting should be fine (although we’ve never tested it specifically), so long as you push/move the window a little so that you only fast 12-14 hours before the blood draw.
Personally I have a difficult time getting calories high enough if I try to IF through the protocol.

Jeremy
Jeremy
2 years ago

Got it – thank you!

Jeff Martinson
Jeff Martinson
2 years ago

I just heard you on the 2KetoDudes podcast… from 2016. I’m still playing catch-up on all the old episodes. This is amazing. Do you have specific pictures of your meals throughout the day? Or anything written down? I got my blood test right before Keto and my readings were ok, not great. I then started keto and 4 months later we signed up for life insurance. We’ll surprise surprise my levels were elevated just passed the mark for Premium Level. (I wasn’t surprised)

It’s now 2 months later and I’d like to go Super High Calorie Keto to see if I can get my levels back to what the insurance company deems healthy.

My wife gave me a year to let my body adjust and see if my levels will come back down. Otherwise I’ll have to go back to eating like crap for a few months and probably feeling worse so my levels are satisfactory and I’m “healthy” again. This is to avoid paying the higher premiums for the next 30years.

I’m a thinner guy like you. 5’9” was 168lbs which was my heaviest and I lost 20lbs in the first 2months and another 5lbs of the last 4months. So 25 Total.

I didn’t start Keto for the weight loss. I had major low back pain that was just miserable. Within 2 weeks my low back pain went away. I still get nags in my back from time to time. But it’s not the constant everyday pain that I was dealing with before.

Anyway. I love keto and don’t plan to go back. But wanted to see if you had some specifics on how you got your calories to 5k per day.

Thanks. I really appreciate any help you can give.

Jeff

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Martinson

Hi Jeff,
I’ve likewise done the protocol (and have been on 2ketodudes, although a much later episode 😉 ) for what that’s worth.
Essentially, all you want is keto foods you know you love and can eat a lot of. The higher fat, the better. So if you’re already keto, take what you normally eat and increase it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be 5000 calories, I’ve gone up to 3000 (double normal caloric intake) and gotten results.

So just eat as much as you can of fatty keto foods you love, while keeping ketogenic ratios, as much as you feel comfortable doing and try to get above your normal caloric intake significantly.
Dave did fatty meat, fatty cheese, and stuff like that. I mostly did fatty cheese and processed fatty meat (pepperoni). But anything fatty you usually eat would probably work so long as it remains high fat very low carb and you can eat a lot of it.

Adriana
Adriana
2 years ago

Siobhan what happened to your weight those 3 days?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Adriana

I’ve done the protocol twice where I’ve weighed.
The first time was a 12 1/2 day protocol where I fasted 7 days (went from 147 to 136.5) after which I went directly to high fat/high calorie (3000 calories a day) for 5 days where I went from 136.5 to 145.
So a net loss of 2 lbs (likely due to the fasting part).

The second one, I went from maintenance calories (1500/d) to high fat/high calorie (4000-6000 calories/d) for five days and gained 2 lbs (145 to 147).

So in one case a net loss of two pounds, and in the second a net gain of 2 lbs.

Adriana
Adriana
2 years ago

I have been following the Fung Protocol since 8/15/18. Doing Keto + IF, occasional EF for weightloss. I have lost 20#. Am schedule to see my primary care doc on 11/26 for a follow-up. Am concerned that due to the shift to keto my lipids will be spiking unless I do the Feldman Protocol. My test results, after 1 day keto, 16:8:
– Total Cholesterol 239
– Triglycerides. 143
– HDL. 42
– LDL (calc). 168

My total cholesterol on this latest test was the lowest I have had in 5 years (previous readings 262, 288, 258) Could a single day of keto have caused the improvement?

Woukd you expect 3 days of Feldman prtocol on upcoming test will at least orevent a “keto spike”?

Adriana
Adriana
2 years ago
Reply to  Adriana

Just realized that the drop to 239 was probably due to 6 months of Red Yeast Rice which I have since discontinued. This, and i troduction of Keto will likely further confound any upcoming test results.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Adriana

Ah, yes, that would do it. Red Yeast Rice contains the same compound as many common statins, so a drop from taking it wouldn’t surprise me.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
2 years ago
Reply to  Adriana

I’m not sure about the 1 day of keto, it would likely impact it somewhat but I’m not sure by how much.
I don’t really like the idea of using the protocol for your annual results – the point of those is to get the best data you can to see how well your health is doing, and the protocol can fudge with some other important results like insulin, HDL, and triglycerides among others.
Plus, your doctor’s job is to help you achieve your health goals and giving them “compromised” data makes that job harder. One option is to do it, but tell your doctor you’re doing it beforehand so they know it’s not your normal. Another option is to get normal testing, then ask for a re-test where you try the protocol to demonstrate how dynamic the numbers are.

FERNDA HQ
1 year ago

Interesting meal plan huh

Keith
Keith
1 year ago

I am new (1yr) to the LCHF diet world but I am following it religiously. My doctor hates it, while I love it and won’t back down until I see concrete evidence that its not safe. My total chol. 340 LDL 266.8 HDL 59 Trig 71 RC 14.2 CAC score 0!!!!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Keith

That’s a lipid panel I wouldn’t mind having! Nice 🙂

Shimmy
1 year ago

Hello Dave/Siobhan,

I have been scouring the internet for help regarding my recent blood test results that has my GP & husband freaking out & pressuring me to stop doing keto which I have been on for 5 months. I have been reading & listening to everything cholesterol related though sadly it seems I have a mental block in truly understanding how it relates to my blood reading as what I usually I see online is American & I am UK based (if that makes sense).

A bit about me, diagnosed with Premature ovarian failure, went into premature menopause at 36, I’m 44 now & considered post-menopausal with a normal thyroid if that makes a difference. And I do HIIT 2 – 3 times a week & yoga every day.

Recent results (according to my GP an alarming leap from my pre-keto test results) are as follows

Cholesterol = 12.3 mmol/L – (normal considered 2.5 – 5.00 mmol/L)

* Trigs = 1mmol/L – (normal considered 0.4 – 2.30 mmol/L)

* HDL = 2.3 – ( (normal considered 1.2 – 1.70 mmol/L)

* LDL = 9.5 – (normal considered0.0 – 3.50 mmol/L)

* Cholesterol / HDL ratio 5.3

If anyone else on here is UK, possibly London based, knows of anyone to reach out to this side of the pond would be utterly amazing.

Many thanks in anticipation

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Shimmy

Hi Shimmy! It looks like you’re a Lean Mass Hyper-responder! In other words, a lean mean fat burning machine (or someone who is lean and/or active and running on fat).
You may find this post regarding women and cholesterol interesting, as well as the Lean Mass Hyper-responder facebook group.

Scott Moff
Scott Moff
1 year ago

Would stopping exercise on the three days prior to the final blood test, during the high calorie days increase or decrease cholesterol numbers for the test? I other words, would it amplify the drop?

Scott Moff
Scott Moff
1 year ago
Reply to  Dave

I completed the test and sent my numbers. My cholesterol dropped about 45 points.

Jen
Jen
1 year ago

Hi Dave,

Been doing keto for about 10 months and lost close to 70 pounds
My last lipid panel:
Chol: 221
Trig: 54
HDL: 71
LDL: 139

Doc wants to put me on a statin
Will try your method first. Need to show him your research
He thinks low carb and weight loss should have reduced
my numbers

Chris
Chris
1 year ago

Hi Dave

How did your weight and blood pressure vary during the protocol? Did you do any exercise? If not, about how many calories do you think you burned/day?

Scott Moff
Scott Moff
1 year ago

I workout regularly and maintain less than 15% body fat. I was on a low fat diet most of my life, but I had to eat all the time. I went on a high fat diet in 2017 and my total cholesterol jumped 100 points (see attached file for data). My CAC is 0. Although my doctor wants me on statins, I have not agreed t take them. I recently tried the protocol for my blood test on 11/30/2018. My total cholesterol dropped 44 points and my LDL dropped 54. The data and my food log is attached. I did not consume enough fat, only 67%. When I do it again I will try to improve in that arena. I was 500 calories short of the 5000 on two of the days.

Nives Skornik
Nives Skornik
1 year ago

Hi David,

hopefully you can help me out. I’m still trying to figure out the cholesterol on LCHF. I’m eating LCHF now for two years and here are my blood test result (after fasting for 14 hours):
LDL-P: 1525 nmol/L
LDL-C: 144 mg/dL
HDL-C: 66 mg/dL
Triglycerides: 62 mg/dL
Cholesterol, Total: 222 mg/dL
HDL-P (total): 29.5 umol/L
Small LDL-P: 111 nmol/L
LDL Size 21.9 nm
LP-IR Score: <25

What do you think about this numbers? Are they OK or should I change something? My doctor said that my bad cholesterol, LDL, is a bit on the higher side but alltogether acceptable, particularly since I have very few of the small, more dangerous particles. My good cholesterol, HDL, looks great as do the triglycerides and the fasting blood sugar. I'm a little bit confused since I was reading that the LDL-P levels are ideal less than 1000 nmol/L.

I really appreciate your feedback on this. Much appreciated. Happy Holidays.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Nives Skornik

There’s a profile I wouldn’t mind having! 🙂
LDL-P is typically LDL-C x10 +/- 15% in metabolically healthy people from what I’ve seen so far, so it’s not surprising your LDL-P is around that range. Some people do consider high LDL-P in itself a risk, but there’s some debate on that. For what it’s worth I’ve yet to see a study showing that high LDL-C or LDL-P in isolation with high HDL and low triglycerides is, in itself, high risk. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, just that I haven’t seen it yet. There are some studies which show the opposite, though.

For what it’s worth, it also looks like you might be heading towards Lean Mass Hyper-responder numbers, as well.

Nives Skornik
Nives Skornik
1 year ago

Hi Siobhan, thank you very much for your input and the additional sources of information. Very helpful. I appreciate it. Have a nice evening.

Russel
Russel
1 year ago

Hi David,

I want to try this, i have bump into your website because of my recent blood test result that my LDL reached 258 and my HDL is 50, Trig is 80. This happens 3 days after starting Keto Diet again. My Doctor asked me to go on Meds but I dont want to do it. So Im gonna stick to Keto diet and try this protocol.

Thank you.

Russel

Russel
Russel
1 year ago
Reply to  Russel

–==== CholesterolCode.com/Report v0.9.3 ====–
…1 months on LCHF (20g to 120g carbs) ::: 10 hours water fasted…
WARNING: fasting for less than 12 hours can risk confounded lipid numbers. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQHztlN1Yls
Total Cholesterol: 324 mg/dL 8.38 mmol/L
LDL Cholesterol: 258 mg/dL 6.67 mmol/L
HDL Cholesterol: 50 mg/dL 1.29 mmol/L
Triglycerides: 80 mg/dL 0.9 mmol/L

–CHOLESTEROL REMNANTS–
Remnant Cholesterol: 16 mg/dL 0.41 mmol/L >>> Medium-Low Risk Quintile
Remnant Chol to HDL: 0.32 >>> Medium Risk Quintile
Go to https://tinyurl.com/y84u92wm for more on Cholesterol Remnants

–ATHEROGENIC INDEX OF PLASMA (AIP)–
AIP: -0.156 >>> Lowest Risk Third
Go to https://tinyurl.com/ycccmmnx for more on Atherogenic Index of Plasma

–CONVENTIONAL MARKERS AND RATIOS–
Friedewald LDL-C: 258 | Iranian LDL-C: 231
Total/HDL Ratio: 6.48
TG/HDL Ratio in mg/dL: 1.6 | in mmol/L: 0.7

By the way this is my numbers. I dont know if this is good or bad as what my doctor said.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Russel

It looks like a profile I’d expect from a low carber, but it’s worth noting that it’s recommended to wait for the 4-6 month mark to test after changing a diet as adaption can take a while.

Lucas
Lucas
1 year ago

Im trying to understand the mechanism. At the begining you were eating a low calorie, low carb diet. Taking into account that you had a decrease in LDL, It’s not clear to me why your TG’s levels have droped at the end, since you are eating more more calories from fat. Did’nt the decreased LDL levels resulted from increased TG’s so, they have became “FULL”, turned in VLDL?

Sheffie Kalat-Malho
Sheffie Kalat-Malho
9 months ago
Reply to  Dave

Dave, I recently did the 6.5 day 2 blood test protocol, how can I post my results?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
9 months ago

You can post your results anywhere in the comments – if you have a spreadsheet you can attach it to the comment if that is convenient for you. Or you could upload the spreadsheet to e.g. google drive or similar and link that. Or just post the results as text – whichever you prefer!

Sheffie Kalat-Malho
Sheffie Kalat-Malho
9 months ago

Ok, i created a spreadsheet detailing all the lab results and the food intake on the days preceding. Let me know what you think.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
9 months ago

Thanks! If I’m reading right it looks like there wasn’t a huge shift in LDL (although lowering still there it seems) Could you also describe yourself and the circumstances leading up to the test? E.g. activity level vs normal activity level, body type (if comfortable sharing)? Thanks!

Sheffie Kalat-Malho
Sheffie Kalat-Malho
9 months ago

Yah I wasn’t sure if that was because I was eating too much during the low calorie days or not enough during the high calorie days, I have seen my LDL under 3 mmol/l on previous tests on a low carb diet and eating consistently just over maintenance levels for a few months . I think if I were to continue with the high calorie days my LDL would have dropped under 3 mmol/L. I am 6’1″ 210 lbs lean around 12% bodyfat and workout with weights 5X a week, I did not workout during the week I tested and didn’t have coffee which I usually have 1 cup of a day. I did notice that HDL increased and Trigs decreased during high calorie which are both good trends.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
8 months ago

Thanks for the extra information – when Dave is back from filming the CC documentary I’ll be sure to pass on your data and get his thoughts as well. Any “non-drop” protocol results are definitely worth specifically noting. 🙂

Sheffie Kalat-Malho
Sheffie Kalat-Malho
8 months ago

ok cool looking forward to his thoughts.

Ibrahim Mohammad
Ibrahim Mohammad
1 year ago

Hi Dave,

I was amazed by the research you have done, had left msg on twitter but long enough story to post.
I had an MI(STEM) this year on Jan 03,2019 and then had stent placed and pacemaker because of slower heart rate, since then im on medications and statins (Asprin,plavix,Inspira, Xarelto and Lipitor) after a month are so have do
done a lipid and the numbers are below.
CHOLESTEROL,TOTAL 84 mg/dL
Triglycerides 114 mg/dL
HDL CHOLESTEROL 30 mg/dL
LDL 31 mg/dl
CHOLES/HDL RATIO 2.8 Ratio
NON-HDL CHOLESTEROL 54 mg/dL

I stopped statins because of muscle pains and then done advanced Lipid panel , was quite amazed they sky rocketed, and doctors suggest back on statins, please suggest, according to the the theory if take my regular food, an indian bascially with high rice quantity and wheat (chapati) and weakly mutton or chicken and after MI not getting night sleep and im also software engineer so weekly 3 days of workouts on cardiac rehab – please advise should i stick on to the statins back.

LDL- p =1952
ldl-c =134
hdl-c -136
trig – 215
Cholesterol, Total 213
HDL-P (Total) 18.9
Small LDL-P 1290
LDL Size 20.3
LP-IR Score 61 H <=45

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago

The high triglycerides are interesting considering the likewise high HDL. Have you seen this post? Do any apply here for you?

Caroline
Caroline
1 year ago

Hi Dave/Siohaun,
I’ve been keto/LCHF for about 10 months, here are my numbers (also showing what they were just before the switch to keto):
TC 449 (up from 391)
TG 35 (down from 62)
HDL 145 (up from 90)
LDL 298 (up from 286)

although I meet the numbers for a LMHR, I can see that I easily met those criteria even BEFORE keto – does this mean I’m NOT an Lean mass hyper responder? (I hoped I’d found something to ‘explain’ my extreme numbers!) If I’m not LMHR, do you have any thoughts on my numbers, eg do they look like FH? And do they look like anything to worry about? (they seem to be a lot more extreme than most people who have posted here!)

For info – I’m 51, female, lean, active, and E3/E4, with a CAC of zero.

thanks for your fantastic work!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Caroline

Hi! That is certainly interesting. Can you describe your diet from before keto? What did a general day of eating look like?

Alex
Alex
1 year ago

Hi Everybody at Cholesterolcode,
I really appreciate all your fantastic work an passion for science.
Just want to add my experience, fwiw, with a rough try at the experiment.
After switching to full keto/AF from CKD I’ve witnessed an increase in TC so high as to lead to suspension of blood donor status (btw, I’m 50, 78Kg, 184cm – 30min HIIT/wk – I identify with a LMHR).
TC went from 337 to 402
HDL-C from 110 to 112
LDL-C from 217 (calculated) to 310 (measured)
TG from 52 to 36
Since I wanted to resume donations, without giving up the animal food diet or starting taking meds, then I tried to cheat the forthcoming lab for readmission.
So bad I had just a reminescence of Dave’s protocol and likely confounded with another experiment, I finished with a TC even higher at 413.
Basically I was eating mostly around 70/30 fat/pro, 2600Kcal/day before I emabarked in the week before the test where I added to the same regimen as before an average of 1000Kcal/day of CARB’s for the whole week (last meal 14hrs before draw).
Well, I’m now thinking whether to re-try the experiment (with tight adherence) or giving up blood donor membership – that’s a pity I could find (finally) a sympathetic doctor there, but policies are policies and must be obeyed.
Thanks for your attention and please keep up the wonderful work!
–Alex

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex

Sorry to hear about your blood donating troubles! Am I understanding correctly that you added carbs on top of a high fat diet? I wouldn’t be surprised if this didn’t result in lower LDL – there are two protocol – one is high fat low carb high calorie (where you’d increase what you normally ate, no more than 3x normal baseline), and the other is a carb swap (where you swap fat out for carbs). But with the carb swap you don’t add carbs – you remove fat and proportionally replace it with carbs. Hope that helps!

Alex
Alex
1 year ago

Hi Siobhan, yes indeed, my fault I had taken it lightly, pretty convinced to recall it just requiring upping calories and eventually mixed up the two protocols; lesson learnt, hopefully.
For next time I believe the carbs-fats swap (same calories) could be my preferred way as it would appear to put less “eating stress”; maybe trickier in finding lean cuts and other very low fat protein sources – I could buy one shot of cheap whey protein supplement, though. I wonder however if there’s a way to predict which protocols could be yielding more effectively the temporary decrease of TC in the same or even less time span: should it be the high-calorie, so be it; in such a case do you think adding some resistance training or whatever exercise to try stimulate hunger is a viable option or maybe tamper with the methabolism somehow? Thanks again for you kind attention and continuous support–Alex

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 year ago
Reply to  Alex

Hi again! That makes sense. We try to emphasize it’s swap and not add, but that can sometimes be misunderstood regardless. Generally from what I’ve seen exercising can result in no-drop – at least for the fat loading protocol. I would presume it’d be the same for carb-swap although I’m not sure.
As for lean meat – try chicken breast, chicken tenderloin, and top round beef. Turkey is another option. I did chicken breast during my recent carb swap.

As for what works best for which people – I don’t think we have enough information to know that yet.

DAVID ARNOLD
DAVID ARNOLD
1 year ago

Why are their no vegetables in this diet plan? You are going to become deficient in vitamins and minerals, it would seem.

Longevity86
Longevity86
9 months ago

Let me just add my THANK YOU for the great work you’re doing. (As more tangible thanks: I donated to your awesome Citizen Science Project.) The Feldman Protocol is genius. Several years ago I discovered that I’m a hyper-responder — in a very big way. (Email me if you’re curious about the number; it’s rather higher than most.) Obviously my Dr suggested statins, and I refused. After a fair bit of ad hoc research, I also concluded that although the jury is still out, there wasn’t enough evidence to change how I eat, so I didn’t bother with regular blood tests.

But: then I needed new life insurance, and sky high LDL would likely increase the cost. I didn’t take the time/money to get a ‘before’ test so there’s no way to know for certain that my LDL was still high. (It’s just very likely based on diet and previous results.) in any case, I piled on the LCHF calories with a bias towards NON-saturated fat: nuts & avocado oil (in addition to more meat). The result: total chol. under 200, so in the green.

Then: back to OMAD intermittent fasting to lose the weight I gained, and onward with my life.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
8 months ago
Reply to  Longevity86

Thanks for your support, and thanks for the donation as well! I’m glad you found an interesting way to use the protocol – you are definitely not the first to report using it in this way. Of course on principle we neither encourage nor discourage the use of the protocol in this way, but everyone must decide for themselves the way they’d like to use it.

A small note, that even if the jury is still out on the hyper-responder profile, I do find it very useful to get regular bloodwork anyway – not only to keep an eye on general health in regards to diet (as a self-check to make sure I’m not getting off track) but also to keep an eye out for non-diet related problems, too. I do know a couple people who were very glad to be getting regular bloodwork as they spotted problems early they might not have otherwise, even though their diet was what they would have considered ideal for their goals. Just thought I’d mention!

Sebastian
Sebastian
1 month ago

Did you have steatorrhea on the days where you ate 461 g of fat every day? That’s A LOT of fat!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 month ago
Reply to  Sebastian

I’ve done similar experiments at 540g+ of fat and didn’t experience any, I’ve also never heard Dave mention having any either and it’s something he’d likely bring up since it’s relevant. To note, ketochow does have emulsifiers in it which may help. I’ve also done it with solid food (cured meat and cheese mostly) at about 300g of fat and didn’t notice any either even coming straight from a long fast.

Sylvie
Sylvie
21 days ago

have you considered coming up with a standard diet to follow so that people who want to do this experiment can all eat the same thing (adjust for calorie requirements, of course).
Also – what I’m really wondering about is how does a different type of diet affect this?
For example – how does this change if someone is on a high carb low fat diet? (opposite of LCHF) standard american diet, paleo, keto, vegan, etc
So many questions…

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
18 days ago
Reply to  Sylvie

Hi, while we do have a general guideline for how to complete the protocol it’s actually more valuable to us for people to replicate with their own versions of a ketogenic diet as it helps eliminate the possibility of one factor (other than fat loading) causing the drop in cholesterol. It also helps us catch issues that can happen (like from liquid fats, coffee, MCTs, etc) so we can help identify factors that can influence lipid metabolism.
There is another version called carb swapping, which Dave has done – described here.

Nick Enns
Nick Enns
6 days ago

my GP is worried about my cholesterol (recent test showed total choel at 302). I’m 37, I eat 99% carnivore and I feel great, so I don’t want to change a thing. I’d like to do this Feldman protocol the next round of bloodwork so my GP can be appeased and so he won’t want to push a statin on me (though I wouldn’t take it I’m just sick of talking to him about my choel). Wondering what people actually ate to accomplish their choel drop? Are you just soaking bacon in tallow to get fat waaaay up? Eating a high fat diet already I’m wondering how to get my fat way up, just eating sticks of butter? What are the “nuts and bolts” of going about this protocol and, also, do people generally see about a 65 point total choel drop? thanks y’all

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
1 day ago
Reply to  Nick Enns

Typically, if already eating a high fat diet, people just double their normal food intake. E.g. I’ve done it here with mostly high fat cured meat and cheese, I’ve also done it with keto shakes, etc. I’ve known people who’ve done it with high fat curries, casseroles, etc.

Personally, if I were to do it right now I’d take what I normally eat (high fat carnivore) and double it, or as close to doubling as I could do without causing nausea/discomfort, for three days, then water-only fast for 12-14 hours (no coffee, no tea, no caffeine – just water) and get the blood test.

As for what %/total drop – it seems to depend as you can see in the results of the ketofest cholesterol drop experiment.

As a side note, neither Dave nor I recommend using the protocol (or other methods to intentionally change lab results from their normal) in order to mislead a doctor. We’re not doctors and can’t give medical advice ourselves of course, but personally I consider it a doctor’s job to work as a health consultant and give advice that they think will help better their patients health based off of the information they’re provided – by manipulating that data, it makes it harder for them to do their job. I find it helpful to remind myself that, although it’s their job to give advice, it’s also my job to determine if their advice is a right fit for my goals and concerns and make it clear where I feel their suggestion isn’t something I’m comfortable with, or feel is right for me, and perhaps where we could compromise if needed so that we’re both comfortable.

One thing I have done is do the protocol, and be upfront with my doctor about it, and used that as an ice breaker to discuss my thoughts on cholesterol, and the lipid energy model, and my goals/concerns concerning it, though.

Nick Enns
Nick Enns
1 day ago

This is great! Thank you for your links and your detailed response. All so very helpful.

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