«

»

Oct 31

Infographic of Prediction Experiment

For more details on this graphic and the story behind it, see the post following.

highspeeddrop

95
Leave a Reply

avatar
 
Photo and Image Files
 
 
 
Audio and Video Files
 
 
 
Other File Types
 
 
 
36 Comment threads
59 Thread replies
4 Followers
 
Most reacted comment
Hottest comment thread
38 Comment authors
Siobhan HugginsShimmyKeithFERNDA HQDave Recent comment authors

  Subscribe  
newest oldest most voted
Notify of
Diego Espinosa
Guest

Hi David,
Remarkable, but in many ways not surprising. We need lots more biohacking experiments like yours — millions, actually! My start-up, Healthcoin, is seeking to document them on a blockchain. The idea is we can use that “certified proof” of prevention to channel recognition and rewards to those that are proving prevention right. We want to create a vast, “Living Chain” of proof, one that scales across the globe and over lifetimes, and can be accessed by medical researchers.

If interested, I’d like to include you in an early pilot of the technology. Please email me for more details.

Thanks,
Diego

Annlee
Guest
Annlee

Reminds me of Dr. Atkins – when weight loss stalled, he’d advise a “fat fast.” Jackie Eberstein has commented on it.

Pam Forrester
Guest
Pam Forrester

Hi Dave,
I just found your site. I am a hyper responder. I have been LCHF for 6 years. I hate to go to the doctor who wants to put me on a statin, which I will not do. But why does this happen? Can you point me to the link where I am sure you explained it. Also loved loved loved the illustrated Simple Guide to Cholesterol. Is part III up yet?

Patrick Fannin
Guest
Patrick Fannin

Dave, I am 48 and have been on a ketogenic diet for about 5 years. I recently had a coronary CT scan that my doctor wanted me to do because of high cholesterol and because of my diet. My calcium score was in the 70th worst percentile for for calcium deposits. I am wanting to consult with someone in the keto community who can help me understand why I have high levels of calcium deposits and what to do about it. I don’t want to go back to my pre-keto life but this test result has scared me. Thanks for any guidance or referral.

GCGeo
Guest
GCGeo

What is your LDLp? My personal experience has been that high LDLp drives the process that eventually shows up as CAC score > 0. Keep in mind that CAC shows up late in the game so even with a score of zero you could still be subject to a long term ongoing disease process that may not manifest for yet many years. Check out Davis’ book “Track Your Plaque.” It was written some years ago but still has a wealth of useful information. At the time the book was written, Davis counseled low saturated fat along with his no wheat and low carb recommendations. I wonder what his take on saturated fat is today. Good luck. Keep us posted on your situation.

Dwight
Guest
Dwight

Hello Dave

Your data is interesting though scary. Your calories per day (high days) are too high. Your cholesterol numbers freak me out.

You appear to be a “youngish” man meaning that because your coronary arteries start with a wide diameter they are closing. You can’t tell because of starting diameter. I’m betting the smaller coronary arteries are closing. Penis and peripheral arteries.

If you continue to be low carb obsessed My suggestion is to Check degree of closure of coronary arteries by non invasive means like PET and so on. You might be one of the lucky folk who are not fat sensitive. Robert Atkins said about 1/3 of people (I think) have to be careful about fat intake.

A major problem with large fat intake i.e. High calories from fat is that you are not getting the phytonutrients necessary. Towards the end of Atkins life he was asked what he would do differently if any. He said he’d eat a lot more greens. Fat has a very low nutrient density.

With respect you seem to be missing the forest for the trees.

Eric Rodgers
Guest
Eric Rodgers

Dwight

Interesting comments do you have any links to Atkins comments where he said he’d eat a lot more greens?

Thanks

Eric

Miguel
Guest
Miguel

Hello Dave,

What you are doing is amazing! Thank you for your work! I am interested in your food log for the higher calorie days. I see your macros percentages but what foods did you intake to achieve such a higher saturated fat and protein? I would like to follow your experiment myself and I currently use Cronometer to track my foods. Thanks!

Jorge Estevao
Guest
Jorge Estevao

Monosaturate fats and fish oil are known to increase HDL and decrease LDL. Have you tried to increase these instate of satured fat on your diet and watch the results?

Gary
Guest
Gary

just got my first panel back after starting Keto in July. went from 305 to 404, and all my other indicators, except tri’s and HDL are red flagged to the extreme. not quite sure where i am going to go next.

fat is up/carbs down, fiber down from about 150/day to 20-25/day, sat fat up but not markedly.

now it’s all a process of elimination but the testing cycle is a pain, I don’t have a lab I can pound blood into easily.

Craig
Admin

Gary,

It sounds like you are comparing a pre-keto lab to a 2-months into keto lab. What all did you have tested? Could you post the TC/HDL/TG/LDL for those two tests? (We should have an article on recommendations for what labs to get, soon)

My LDL-C and TC are also “flagged to the extreme”, but after doing a bunch of research and some additional testing, I’m not too worried. If TG dropped and HDL went up, those are very positive developments.

Craig

Diane
Guest
Diane

Has anyone who is not routinely low-carb tried your experiment? I’m on more of a high protein, low fat body-builder type diet and wonder if this would still work for me. I just want my doctor off my back. I refuse to take statins.

cibele
Guest
cibele

Hi Dave, I just found out about you and your blog online and I’m already amazed.
i did the keto diet for 3 months and at the end I have high cholesterol. I also have polycystic ovary syndrome and my doctor asked me to stop this high fat diet.
Im on a regular diet, still low carb, but I definitely loved the keto diet…I was feeling amazing every single day, with a lot energy any time of the day.
I started to google today about it since I really would like to go back to the keto diet at least during the week (5 days a week).
what do you thing about this approach?
maybe I should stay way from Saturated fat for a month and test my cholesterol again?
you comments will be very important for me. thank you so much for sharing all this information.
Thank you, cibele
[DAVE NOTE: I removed your email as this site is crawled by spambots quite a bit!]

amy
Guest
amy

Question:

Please forgive me if the answer is here on the site somewhere–I’ve crawled around and can’t find it.

For the cholesterol drop protocol, during the high calorie part, does the ratio of saturated to unsaturated fat seem to make a difference? Or is that something no one has looked at?

thanks!

– Amy

Traci
Guest
Traci

From Healthcoin “Our mission is to allow employers, insurers and governments across the globe to incentivize and manage their population’s lifestyle change.”

Don’t we need less management from the government, our employers and insurers?

Daniel Bullen
Guest
Daniel Bullen

Dave – Please help!!!

I just want to make sure I understand this. I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 3 months – with no cheats. I recently got my lipid panel and my Dr. and Fiance were extremely worried about my LDL and total cholesterol levels… (Total: 360 and LDL: 303). My Dr. asked me to eat less red meat and come back again in a month. He said I didn’t need the NMR Lipid profile ( I requested).

If I consume high fat/cals for 3 days leading up to the next test, I should notice a drop in LDL? I just don’t want them on my case about my LCHF diet, as it has been the best thing I’ve ever been on.

Please let me know…

Thanks,
Daniel

Daniel Bullen
Guest
Daniel Bullen

Dave,

Wow – thank you for sharing that guide with the comic. It is extremely helpful in helping me understand what all of this means. As far as the HDL, I will take a closer look at my saturated fat intake and see where else I can add some in to my macros. I am so happy I stumbled upon this blog and I am super appreciative of you taking time out of your day to help me understand all of this.

Thank you!

Daniel

trackback

[…] Feldman has performed a number of experiments demonstrating that manipulating calorie and fat intake and/or carb and fat intake can dramatically […]

Kristof
Guest
Kristof

Hello, interesting here! I just got my results from my blood analysis and was worried. I’m on the ketogenic diet for two months together with IF and am feeling great. But my blood analysis shows a high total cholesterol: 280 mg/dL and high LDL 194 mg/dL. Triglycerides are low: 58 mg/dL and HDL is ok (74 mg/dL), non-HDL-cholesterol is 206 mg/dL (too high!). So my doctor was very worried…
I’m lean, train 3 to 4 times with weights and with a bike, body fat (i guess) is about 14 %.
There’s one more thing i don’t understand: I read that when you are on ketosis, your glucoselevel is between 50-80, mine is 102, so i’m not on ketosis? (I did not eat for the blood analysis).
Many thx and love this blog!
Kristof

Kristof
Guest
Kristof

Edit: bough myself a glucometer and started testing my glucose. My first reading was 74 mg/dl, with is much lower than the lab test (102).

Maryann D
Guest
Maryann D

I came to your site from Megan in the IDM program. I was/am doing low carb, high fat (but was still having sugar and carbs infrequently) and at my six month mark had the following numbers:

Total Cholesterol 288
Triglycerides 156 (in the past they have been in the 200s)
HDL 63
LDL 194
CRP 0.64

I won’t take statins which my doctor has been pushing on me for several years and just did my calcium scan, awaiting results. I don’t understand the fat grams-461 and saturated fat grams-274 listed in your protocol. Are the saturated fats part of the total fat gram or separate. I really want to try this for my next blood draw. Also, not sure I am APOE 4, but think I am 4/4 because of intrepreting my results through Prometheus. Thanks.

Maryann D
Guest
Maryann D

Gosh, Dave, thank you for getting right back to me. My Cardiac CT scan is 200. I am really excited to have this baseline and would like to do the higher slice test that you did in six months, after I go to 0. Can you tell me the facility you used. My current test was a 64 slice multi-detector. Thank you for your work. Whew – it such a relief to know that “I’ve Got This” after my doctor is trying to scare the hell out of me. Best!

Nat
Guest
Nat

Hi David I am concerned about my ldl-p 3074, ldl-c 216, hdl-c 42, TC 285, HDL-p 27.6, small ldlp 1961, oxldl 70, CRP 0.42. I had a CAC in 2016 of zero. I am just starting a protocol for my gut as I have an overgrowth going on which I am hoping will lower all these no plus I think I am insulin resistant . I have also not be doing excercising since Nov trying to get back on that bandwagon. I think I eat pretty well done meat, veg, fruit, low carb some fat try to stay away from grains.
I am the same with every one don’t want to go on meds as I am 54 year old woman and is post menopause ( I think that is causing issues also) I have done the DUTCH test and 23 and me . I also I seeing a functional practioner and treating a leaky gut which I think is fueling my horrific results.
Your thoughts?

Dan
Guest
Dan

Hi Dave,
Been low carb/keto for long time. Lipids NOV 2016:total 261,trig 82,HDL 62, LDL 182. Doctor wants me on statins. My question is if I do the high fat diet 3 days before my lab work next week, how will it effect my other blood tests?
Been following you for a long time.
Dan

Michael Woodard
Guest
Michael Woodard

Great information. I did keto a while and all cholesterol shot up (37 yo and was suggested statins). I think it was because of hypothyroidism. I’ve recently tried zero carb/carnivore. If you feel adventurous I’d love to know what your numbers might be eating meat drinking water. I’ve been zc for about 2 weeks and have a yearly blood test coming up. Im planning on lots of fat for a few days and hope the numbers are better than with keto.

trackback

[…] por mim e agora cerca de [atualizado em 01/03/17] vinte e três pessoas que tentaram também. Isto foi realizado pela primeira vez simultaneamente com a apresentação dos meus dados iniciais no Seminário Ketogains em Outubro de 2016. Esta experiência procura diminuir o colesterol […]

jacque
Guest
jacque

Hi David,
I found your site via Dr. Eades’ blog and have read a lot of what’s on it. I don’t quite understand everything, but I think I get the main points.

I’m pre-D and have been LCHF for about 8 years. (I can’t figure out the macros to do keto.) I’m 72, no longer work out, but I am lean, underweight actually. And I’m 3/3 for APOE. I’d been doing IF (simply skipping breakfast) every day for 2 weeks or so before my lab test last month, so I expected my numbers to be terrific. They’ve been trending upward for the past few years as I’ve been eating more fat, but this time they really jumped. My doc does the NMR.

What I think equates to your HDL-C is missing. It seems to no longer be included in my labs so I’ve listed my HDL-P.

Can you make sense of my numbers? I’m afraid to try your experiment before my next lab test but I want to lower my ldl and TG and up my hdl. Seven years ago I had a similar report, a total of 476 cholesterol. 314 LDL calc, and 146 HDL. So I eliminated whipping cream, cream cheese, chicken skin, animal fat, butter, coconut oil … and cut back to no more than an egg a day. That reduced my cholesterol nearly 200 points. So I’m confused as to what I should be doing. My doc knows I won’t take statins. Thanks.

Cholesterol 356
LDL-P 1826
TG 66–before I started LCHF, TG was usually in the low 40s
Direct LDL 189
HDL-P (total) 47.9

Johnnie D Jackow Sr
Guest

Hi Dave, I figured I would chime in on this as your test results are not surprising. The body will produce more cholesterol whenever you take in less calories from fat/cholesterol. As you know the body makes up to 75% each day. Eat less food and your body will make up for it. Eat more food and your body will make less of it. Your body will try it’s best to maintain homeostasis based on demands. Repair, rebuild, etc..

If your body overcompensates whenever you take in less calories that tells me you have a sluggish liver, organs, cells, etc.. I normally put my clients on liver flushes and clean out their colons and add in a few other supplements for 14 days. Then do your experiment again and you will see your body won’t overcompensate on the cholesterol when eating low calories. I’ve done this experiment about two decades ago and learned the liver is the culprit in most cases considering your bowels are moving after every meal.

Hector L
Guest

“Hi Dave, I figured I would chime in on this as your test results are not surprising. The body will produce more cholesterol whenever you take in less calories from fat/cholesterol. As you know the body makes up to 75% each day. Eat less food and your body will make up for it. Eat more food and your body will make less of it. Your body will try it’s best to maintain homeostasis based on demands. Repair, rebuild, etc..”

Yup, that’s common knowledge stuff and there’s nothing interesting about the cholesterol drop. Can Dave comment on this?

trackback

[…] Extreme Drop experiment where I manipulated my cholesterol numbers with diet around the first presentation of my […]

trackback

[…] 3rd – 12th – Extreme Drop Experiment and Ketogains Seminar presentation […]

Pablo
Guest
Pablo

Hi David, how much does affect physical activity to the protocol?, I will do the 3 days protocol in the next days but I dont know if i should train or I need just to rest? Also, how long do I have to be on LCHF or Keto to do the protocol?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

In general it’s recommended not to do intensive exercise during the protocol – e.g. a leisurely stroll is fine, but running or weight lifting is probably not a great idea. I’ve seen a few cases where they didn’t see a drop during the protocol, and when they re-did it sans exercise they got the expected drop.

As for the second question, generally about 6 months. And as an added note, we generally recommend getting a baseline lab as well to compare the results of the protocol as well, to see what your normal is before trying it.

Pablo
Guest
Pablo

Thanks Siobhan, I did weightlifting yesterday and have only been with LCHF for 2 months after a period of one month of bad eating habits so I will wait to do it.
Where do I send the results once I have them?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin
Frank
Guest
Frank

Hi Dave,
I am interested in trying this protocol. Any chance you can share exactly what you ate for the three days prior to blood testing to equate 5000 plus calories? I am having a difficult time figuring that out and still keepin in the right macronutrient profile.

David B
Guest
David B

Found this blog and info. Looking for some feedback on where to go from here and worried about my cholestorol.

38 year old male Type 1 insulin dependent Diabetic since 8 years old. A1C from 7-8 my entire adult life. Started Dr Bernstein/Keto last November. Went from 235lbs to 185 lbs since then. Weight stalled a while back and have been doing IF 22/2 or 20/4 successfully. A1C is now steady at 5.3. However my cholestorol numbers are looking bad especially this NMR.

My trigs were great back in July but I started adding heavy cream with my coffee instead of hemp milk in the morning and I started doing consistent 5 days IF mon-fri and now my trigs are high on my NMR. I am going to ditch the heavy cream but mostly I eat green leafy and cruciferous veggies and meat along with cheeses and eggs, figh, lots of nuts and seeds, etc.

SEPT 2018 PRE KETO (SAD DIET)
CHOL 244, Calculated LDL 155, HDL 44, TRIGS 223, Calculated non-HDL 200

JULY 2018 9 MONTHS KETO
CHOL 256, Calculated LDL 193, HDL 42, TRIGS 105, Calculated non-HDL 214, Chol/HDL 6.1

SEPT 2018 NMR
LDL Particle Number 2,379
LDL Cholesterol 172
HDL Cholesterol 33
Triglycerides 227
Total Cholesterol 250
Total HDL Particles 21.5
Small LDL-P 1,055
Large VLDL-P 4.5
Large HDL-P 2.7
VLDL Size 50.1
LDL Size 21.1
HDL Size 8.6
LP/IR Score 74

Any suggestions or thoughts I am lost on what to do or adjust and my doctor is telling me I should go vegan!!! My goes is to stay LC for my diabetes and maintaining A1C!

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

Hello to Dave and the community here. I plan to try the 3-day high cal cholesterol drop protocol. I have a question though that I haven’t seen brought up in the comments. I generally fast around 16 hours a day give or take – if I consume all of the higher calories during a defined eating window, is that sufficient, or would you recommend that I put intermittent fasting on hold while I do this? Thanks!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

If you can comfortably do that, intermittent fasting should be fine (although we’ve never tested it specifically), so long as you push/move the window a little so that you only fast 12-14 hours before the blood draw.
Personally I have a difficult time getting calories high enough if I try to IF through the protocol.

Jeremy
Guest
Jeremy

Got it – thank you!

Jeff Martinson
Guest
Jeff Martinson

I just heard you on the 2KetoDudes podcast… from 2016. I’m still playing catch-up on all the old episodes. This is amazing. Do you have specific pictures of your meals throughout the day? Or anything written down? I got my blood test right before Keto and my readings were ok, not great. I then started keto and 4 months later we signed up for life insurance. We’ll surprise surprise my levels were elevated just passed the mark for Premium Level. (I wasn’t surprised)

It’s now 2 months later and I’d like to go Super High Calorie Keto to see if I can get my levels back to what the insurance company deems healthy.

My wife gave me a year to let my body adjust and see if my levels will come back down. Otherwise I’ll have to go back to eating like crap for a few months and probably feeling worse so my levels are satisfactory and I’m “healthy” again. This is to avoid paying the higher premiums for the next 30years.

I’m a thinner guy like you. 5’9” was 168lbs which was my heaviest and I lost 20lbs in the first 2months and another 5lbs of the last 4months. So 25 Total.

I didn’t start Keto for the weight loss. I had major low back pain that was just miserable. Within 2 weeks my low back pain went away. I still get nags in my back from time to time. But it’s not the constant everyday pain that I was dealing with before.

Anyway. I love keto and don’t plan to go back. But wanted to see if you had some specifics on how you got your calories to 5k per day.

Thanks. I really appreciate any help you can give.

Jeff

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

Hi Jeff,
I’ve likewise done the protocol (and have been on 2ketodudes, although a much later episode 😉 ) for what that’s worth.
Essentially, all you want is keto foods you know you love and can eat a lot of. The higher fat, the better. So if you’re already keto, take what you normally eat and increase it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be 5000 calories, I’ve gone up to 3000 (double normal caloric intake) and gotten results.

So just eat as much as you can of fatty keto foods you love, while keeping ketogenic ratios, as much as you feel comfortable doing and try to get above your normal caloric intake significantly.
Dave did fatty meat, fatty cheese, and stuff like that. I mostly did fatty cheese and processed fatty meat (pepperoni). But anything fatty you usually eat would probably work so long as it remains high fat very low carb and you can eat a lot of it.

Adriana
Guest
Adriana

Siobhan what happened to your weight those 3 days?

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

I’ve done the protocol twice where I’ve weighed.
The first time was a 12 1/2 day protocol where I fasted 7 days (went from 147 to 136.5) after which I went directly to high fat/high calorie (3000 calories a day) for 5 days where I went from 136.5 to 145.
So a net loss of 2 lbs (likely due to the fasting part).

The second one, I went from maintenance calories (1500/d) to high fat/high calorie (4000-6000 calories/d) for five days and gained 2 lbs (145 to 147).

So in one case a net loss of two pounds, and in the second a net gain of 2 lbs.

Adriana
Guest
Adriana

I have been following the Fung Protocol since 8/15/18. Doing Keto + IF, occasional EF for weightloss. I have lost 20#. Am schedule to see my primary care doc on 11/26 for a follow-up. Am concerned that due to the shift to keto my lipids will be spiking unless I do the Feldman Protocol. My test results, after 1 day keto, 16:8:
– Total Cholesterol 239
– Triglycerides. 143
– HDL. 42
– LDL (calc). 168

My total cholesterol on this latest test was the lowest I have had in 5 years (previous readings 262, 288, 258) Could a single day of keto have caused the improvement?

Woukd you expect 3 days of Feldman prtocol on upcoming test will at least orevent a “keto spike”?

Adriana
Guest
Adriana

Just realized that the drop to 239 was probably due to 6 months of Red Yeast Rice which I have since discontinued. This, and i troduction of Keto will likely further confound any upcoming test results.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

Ah, yes, that would do it. Red Yeast Rice contains the same compound as many common statins, so a drop from taking it wouldn’t surprise me.

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

I’m not sure about the 1 day of keto, it would likely impact it somewhat but I’m not sure by how much.
I don’t really like the idea of using the protocol for your annual results – the point of those is to get the best data you can to see how well your health is doing, and the protocol can fudge with some other important results like insulin, HDL, and triglycerides among others.
Plus, your doctor’s job is to help you achieve your health goals and giving them “compromised” data makes that job harder. One option is to do it, but tell your doctor you’re doing it beforehand so they know it’s not your normal. Another option is to get normal testing, then ask for a re-test where you try the protocol to demonstrate how dynamic the numbers are.

FERNDA HQ
Guest

Interesting meal plan huh

Keith
Guest
Keith

I am new (1yr) to the LCHF diet world but I am following it religiously. My doctor hates it, while I love it and won’t back down until I see concrete evidence that its not safe. My total chol. 340 LDL 266.8 HDL 59 Trig 71 RC 14.2 CAC score 0!!!!

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

That’s a lipid panel I wouldn’t mind having! Nice 🙂

Shimmy
Guest

Hello Dave/Siobhan,

I have been scouring the internet for help regarding my recent blood test results that has my GP & husband freaking out & pressuring me to stop doing keto which I have been on for 5 months. I have been reading & listening to everything cholesterol related though sadly it seems I have a mental block in truly understanding how it relates to my blood reading as what I usually I see online is American & I am UK based (if that makes sense).

A bit about me, diagnosed with Premature ovarian failure, went into premature menopause at 36, I’m 44 now & considered post-menopausal with a normal thyroid if that makes a difference. And I do HIIT 2 – 3 times a week & yoga every day.

Recent results (according to my GP an alarming leap from my pre-keto test results) are as follows

Cholesterol = 12.3 mmol/L – (normal considered 2.5 – 5.00 mmol/L)

* Trigs = 1mmol/L – (normal considered 0.4 – 2.30 mmol/L)

* HDL = 2.3 – ( (normal considered 1.2 – 1.70 mmol/L)

* LDL = 9.5 – (normal considered0.0 – 3.50 mmol/L)

* Cholesterol / HDL ratio 5.3

If anyone else on here is UK, possibly London based, knows of anyone to reach out to this side of the pond would be utterly amazing.

Many thanks in anticipation

Siobhan Huggins
Admin

Hi Shimmy! It looks like you’re a Lean Mass Hyper-responder! In other words, a lean mean fat burning machine (or someone who is lean and/or active and running on fat).
You may find this post regarding women and cholesterol interesting, as well as the Lean Mass Hyper-responder facebook group.